How much work do we do on a bike

[Admin]

First an anecdote to make the point:

About a year and a half ago my partner and her visiting father went to Recyclore to buy a bike. The bike was for his use for the visit, and then became hers when he left. Her English was fairly limited and his was non-existent. Their knowledge of bikes was even less than that.

They got a bike which he used, and then my partner did. Both complained that it was difficult to ride, so about a month after it was purchased I took the tools to it and was not impressed. The bike had not seen much use in the month we had owned it, so the problems I found were not as a result of our use of it.

To be honest after 18 months I do not clearly recall much in the way of specifics. Certainly all of the lubricant in the hubs and crank was getting near dry, and the rear wheel needed truing. There were other issues as well, but as I said I don't recall the details. Bear in mind that the bike was not cheap. Reasonably priced if it had provided trouble free riding for a reasonable period, but very overpriced for a bike that had not even been adequately tuned up.

At the time I was trying to volunteer with Recyclore, but as a consequence of this incident I seriously had to think whether I wanted to be with a group that did such shoddy work.

I have had conversations about this with a couple of Recyclore folks and I am not satisfied with the answers. If I understand it correctly the argument is that:

1. the Work Sheet clearly states that they are buying the bike "as is" (caveat emptor)
   
2. the Work Sheets say what work has been done,
   
3. if the client finds a problem within a reasonable amount of time we will fix it
   
4. if the client wants to upgrade the work they are welcome to DIY it in our shop.
   

My issues would include:

1) Just what is 'as is'? Most clients have a certain (perfectly reasonable) expectation of what work has been done with respect to fixing up a bike, ie that it should be problem free for a few months at the very least, if not longer. This is how we all behave when acquiring something that is either new or allegedly fixed up, regardless of whatever warranties etc say.

2) Exactly what the Work Sheet means by (for example) "Wheels 'good'" is not even clear to most of us at Recyclore; certainly no one has been able to clearly articulate it to me. So what is it supposed to mean to a client? even one who actually knows anything about bikes, never mind someone who knows nothing about them.

For both points 1) and 2), what about the clients for whom the English language is a challenge? Many in the disadvantaged community whom we try to serve are variously new Canadians, poorly educated, etc and do not always clearly understand even if we were being clear.

3) All well and good as far as it goes, but:

• the inconvenience of returning to the shop to drop the bike off, and then again to pick up again for something that should not have been a problem in the first place is hardly going to endear us to anyone. I realize of course that this sort of thing is occasionally unavoidable. One hundred per cent error free is not possible, but it should still be kept to a minimum.
  
• even if the person realizes that there is a problem of some sort, many will not know whether it is something that is simply universal to cycling, or if it happens to be that make/model of bike, or if it is something that we should or could have addressed in tuning it up (eg dry lubricant).
  
• even if the person feels the problem could have been addressed, ie either that we failed to service the bike up to standards OR simply sold them a crappy bike, many will simply vow never to patronize Recyclore again rather than return to the shop with a complaint. This is a documented fact about consumer behaviour generally; most dissatisfied customers simply take their business elsewhere rather than complain or seek redress.
  

4) Sure, for the person who wants the bicycle in a better condition than we sold it to them this is a possibility, but:

• many have no interest in working on bicycles at all
  
• some are not able to (eg single parent on limited income; ANY activity where they have to arrange child care is a challange)
  
• not everyone is in the neighbourhood, and while our location may be acceptable for a one stop purchase, it would be much less so for repeated visits to do the work.
  

While a more minimal approach improves our immediate bottom line, I feel quite strongly that we are not doing ourselves any favours with that approach:

1. Unhappy clients will not be repeat customers;
   
2. They may not tell us their complaint, but they will tell other people about their experience with us;
   
3. A bike that has problems soon after purchase will often simply be set aside for an indefinite period prior to being trashed ie we will not have saved it from the landfill so much as temporarily delayed it. While this is true of all of our bikes, the premise is that they get a lot more use prior to the inevitable rather than a minor pause.
   

  For these reasons I think we need to do two things:

1) Rethink exactly what a potential customer reasonably expects when they purchase a bike from us, and as far as possible consistently meet that standard, and

2) Regardless of what is determined in step 1), be much clearer and more explicit with customers as to what has and hasn't been done to a bike we have processed, and what the possible consequences could be.

eg if we are not going to check hub and crank lubricant as part of tune ups then we should be clear that this has not, or may not have been done.

3) Be much clearer and more explicit that if the customer experiences any problems whatsoever they should contact us about the problem and that there is a good chance we will address it somehow.

[Admin]

I am adding this to this thread as it relates, but is slightly tangential to the main topic.

Several people have expressed interest in the Peugot Deauville, and all have expressed not liking the seat (one of the very wide upright models). It struck me that for most people this type of seat is a major drawback, whereas for the person who wants one this is a major find.

As such I discussed with Peter the idea that we should pull non-standard parts like this, as the average client doesn't even want it and will likely replace it, whereas we do get clients looking for exactly this sort of thing and we often don't have it because we sold them all to people who don't want them.

A little later I sold a bike with an awesome extended seat post to someone who had it down to a bare cm above the frame, and who will never want any more than that. As such that post will get trashed with the bike, having lived it's life inside the frame.

So, I want to suggest that as usual practice we replace certain non-standard components (such as seats and seat posts) so that we can see that they go to people who need/want them. At the moment I am thinking only seats and posts as these are pretty straightforward and minimal effort to switch. Handle bars might be another obvious one, but as the switch would require re-doing all the cabling etc I do not see that as practical. However, there may be other things people can think of that are quick, easy and logical.

Thoughts?

[anoppen]

I don't think I would bother unless something is specifically pointed out by the client (such as not liking the seat, as we have many others to choose from) prohibiting a sale. Depends on how busy the shop is- I find that even changing the pedals around and tightening the stem set can take too much time when multiple clients are in the shop. Due to the limited sales space, I find that if there are more than 2 clients, it gets crowded (add kids, and it gets chaotic AND potentially dangerous). The goal for me then is to get them what they want quickly so that they can move on (and out of the shop). Not sure if asking clients to wait while we change out parts because we think they won't take full advantage of them is worth the potential the test of patience on the client or even the loss of a sale. The shop (a.k.a. dungeon) is not a place where most clients would want to spend any more time than they have to- there is no waiting area. New donations come in all the time, and so will non-standard components.

[Admin]

Alex

No, I do not mean at time of sale since I totally agree with all of the above re time taken, crowding, etc.

I am suggesting that as part of our usual practice we automatically switch out non-standard seats and seat posts (and actually clip pedals come to think of it) during the tune-up as these are useless to most clients, and a great find to the right person. Right now we are too often wasting them on the wrong people since we just leave them with the bike.

[anoppen]

Agreed, but your assumption is that the average client will not want or likely replace a non-standard part (like a large seat). How do you determine the ones that do prior to meeting the client interested in the said bike? Your other example was selling a bike to someone with a long seat post who wasn't likely going to use it (an assumption made after meeting the client). What if the client had been taller and needed it? What if the bike is to be shared with someone taller?

I don't agree that these parts are necessarily "trashed with the bike" and wasted. I always mention to clients to think of donating the bike back to us if/when they're thinking of getting rid of it down the road so that it doesn't end up in a landfill.

That being said, if a donated bike comes in that has been obviously fitted with non-standard parts that don't match the bike's original design/purpose (like an extra large seat on a road bike) I would tend to switch those parts for ones that do match the bike's design/purpose (like a narrower road bike seat).

[Admin]

Alex

In general people go for the standard, that is a given. My purpose is to ensure that when someone wants/needs a non-standard we are able to offer it. On at least 3 occasions I know of we have NOT been able to provide an appropriate seat post (2 times, right length, wrong diameter) or seat (once), even as we send these non-standard items out the door with people who don't really want them.

My goal here is quite specifically to try and make the right match between client wants/needs and the equipment. Of course as you yourself described above, during the sale is not a great time to start fiddling with switching out parts if it can be avoided.

My logic is that even for a simple tune up we pull the seat post to grease and set it, so it's the optimum time to switch out those items. Then when we do get a client who has that specific need we are able to meet it

[RayB]

I totally agree that parts should be able to migrate to a more ideal home on another bike or even for parts regularly purchased. I know some bicycle retailers have their employees push parts, especially with the sale of a complete.  One retailer I worked for shared that the complete bikes were marked up 20-30% above wholesale cost while parts were marked up to as much as 100+% above their cost.  Since the organization is a non-profit this model is perhaps more capitalistic than called for in this situation.

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